2012 Nitrous display problem

[ior=0]

Hi David,
I'm evaluating the 2012 v8 translator plugin and I've noticed a problem when using the Nitrous display driver.
I've imported a STEP file and when I use F4 (display edged faces)instead of displaying the curves and a (clean) shaded surface, it displays the (messy)tri-mesh in shaded view.

edit: I also notice that F2 (show shaded faces) doesn't function

When using the Direct3D driver these problems don't occur and it behaves more like v7

Is this a know issue with Nitrous that can be fixed?

[nPower_Dave]

Yes, this is a known problem. But it appears to be a general problem in the 3ds Max code base, so we cannot affect it. I believe they are working on the issue.

[renderfarmer]

I've also noticed that selecting powerTrans objects is much harder when in Nitrous. I can click on any poly object just fine, but i have to hit a specific edge of a powerTrans object to select it. Problem goes away in D3D so I'm assuming this is also an Autodesk issue.

-phil

[nPower_Dave]

Yes, that is an Autodesk issue with Nitrous.

[ior=0]

Hi David,
are you sure these are Autodesk related? As using the native Inventor importer (which I believe npower coded) doesn't have these issues, and I'm assuming (a big assumption maybe)that the inventor importer is basically an npower BREP with some limited functionality or at least the plug-in interface makes it seem that way, in that it is virtually identical to the npower interface.

I did pm you on this issue but I haven't haven't had your response yet.

I'd expect v8 (when importing STEP)to work just as the Inventor importer, which has some nice features, such as when you select a face subobject the polygon mesh fades in.

Could you explain why it doesn't?

[nPower_erik]

Hey ior=0,

I just updated my 2012 Max 64 bit updated to include the newest service packs and hotfixes. From my testing, it seems that Autodesk included some changes that affect the viewport display of the **** Object. I tested with and without the aforementioned updates and from what I could see, they fixed the "Edged Faces" bug. Now, instead of getting a polygonal mesh displayed with "Edged Faces" enabled, I can see the curves of the surfaces within the Brep.

Additionally, I tested the Sub-Object face issue you mention and for the **** Object and the Editable Brep, I saw that both behave the same when toggling the sub-object face. In both instances, the curves of the surfaces are displayed. Is this different from your findings?

I would guess that with our next patch (8.1?), we will have a fix for this. Other than that, I didn't see any differences. You mention that the Inventor imported objects have nice features. Can you elaborate? Besides the import dialogs, they shouldn't be different.

And renderfarmer, I was unable to reproduce your issue. Have you updated to the latest hotfixes and service pack? I know that I have seen your issue before but I believe it was in a candidate release.

Thank you for your time and patience.

Erik
nPower

[nPower_erik]

Just wanted to give you an update. Nitrous is still a little buggy it seems and while it does look like a step in the right direction, it will take some time to get polished up.

While the **** Object display is fixed, the functionality that we need to hook into is not exposed by Autodesk. This seems to be a lower priority for them so it will be some time before we are able to correctly leverage Nitrous. I will stay on them about releasing something that we can use but for now the wireframe display will show polygons instead of curves.

Just thought I would let you know.

Erik

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

Or you guys could just base everything off of **** Objects and make the added features added by the nPower Plugins. Instead of having multiple objects that are very similar in design (**** Object and Pwr_EditNRB, **** Utility and Pwr_NURBS, Join Bodies and Pwr_Join, **** Cutter and Pwr_Cutter). I understand there are some added features to the Pwr versions, but why not make those added features an extension of a separate object that still returns a **** Object?

:-)

-Eric

[nPower_erik]

Hey Eric,

Definitely an interesting idea. However, there are too many reasons to list why that would be very difficult. It would make sense to keep the code bases unified but in reality, it would be a lot easier said then done. Technology companies have to protect themselves. It would make perfect sense for users to have the best of both worlds but for many different reasons, that can't always happen. Of course, anythings possible.

Erik

[ior=0]

Originally Posted by nPower_erik

Just wanted to give you an update. Nitrous is still a little buggy it seems and while it does look like a step in the right direction, it will take some time to get polished up.

While the **** Object display is fixed, the functionality that we need to hook into is not exposed by Autodesk. This seems to be a lower priority for them so it will be some time before we are able to correctly leverage Nitrous. I will stay on them about releasing something that we can use but for now the wireframe display will show polygons instead of curves.

Just thought I would let you know.

Erik

Erik, 11 months have passed since you mentioned you'd "stay on them" but I notice we still don't have the same display curves the bodyobject does (v9.1_B4315). This is a real pain in the polygon and IMHO one of the main reasons for using npowers BREP.
Direct3D is a total mess now with lighting and wireframe etc. We need to embrace Nitrous, when it works it is great. What is the feedback from AD regarding you being able to access the API - is the somewhere/one we, as users, can ask complain too, with regards getting this sorted.
I'm assuming 2013 isn't any better or different?

[nPower_erik]

AD did publish what they decided would work for us. We didn't get a lot of input because the timing was very bad for us. We were able to make use of what they exposed so you should see some improvement in 2013.

The fix that was integrated for the B*dy Object by AD (remember this was a Nitrous issue) was/is not production ready. It is not published and I have no idea what they plan on doing with it. I would not expect the B*dy Object and our Brep Objects to play nicely together. Personally, I would treat them as separate objects. Some of the interoperability may improve with the Product Update.


Erik

[nPower_Dave]

Originally Posted by ior=0

Erik, 11 months have passed since you mentioned you'd "stay on them" but I notice we still don't have the same display curves the bodyobject does (v9.1_B4315). This is a real pain in the polygon and IMHO one of the main reasons for using npowers BREP.
Direct3D is a total mess now with lighting and wireframe etc. We need to embrace Nitrous, when it works it is great. What is the feedback from AD regarding you being able to access the API - is the somewhere/one we, as users, can ask complain too, with regards getting this sorted.
I'm assuming 2013 isn't any better or different?

There are some improvements in 2013, as we spent a bunch of time working around the issues. However, we still need more direct access to the same APIs that are used for the **** Object. It would not hurt to bring up the issue with Ken Pimentel, Shane Griffin, Bernard, etc.

[ior=0]

Hi David,
I will certainly try that.

[ior=0]

Hi David,
would you mind detailing which APIs it is that AD are not letting you have access to and why it is AD are not letting you have access to them? I can then at least tell Ken exactly what and why it is a problem for me.
Who is you liaison at AD with regards the bodyobject and the npower plugin support?

thks

[ior=0]

I'm assuming you've seen this... API wishlist survey?
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/maxst...odesk-products
This is a reply added to my post...
We submitted the request directly to them as certified developers. I don't know the exact APIs, but whatever they are doing internally to support Nitrous for the **** Object (which we provide) would be exactly what we need (since it is the same object).